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right now symbiostock is open source only in that the source code is freely available
what we lack is any way for non-leo’s to add features, etc
the simplest way to do this would be for anyone thinking of adding code to announce it here, then discuss which modules would need to be changed. they could then develop the new features on their own test site. when ready the new code would be added to the main theme and released
an alternative method would be via plugins, but that gets unwieldy as the project grows and all the various plgins have to work with each other
comments? ideas? suggestions?
@cascoly wrote:
right now symbiostock is open source only in that the source code is freely available
what we lack is any way for non-leo’s to add features, etc
+1
I think that one of the first things that is needed is to get the source code somewhere so that it can be branched / versioned by various people and worked on.
I joined GitHub a few months ago and tried to add a fix (to get my feet wet), but it was either ignored or I wasn’t following the proper process. But since then, AFAIK, the source code hasn’t been kept up to date in GitHub properly and many many versions have come and gone.
Wouldn’t a drop box account work for distribution of the source code?
This was the intent from the start of Symbiostock – I’m happy to see someone taking the initiative on this subject.
If you wish, I will update github so that its perfectly standard. For instance github at this time is hosting files that are non-standard in the Symbiostock install…
If people would like to start unleashing the open source power in this thing, I’m all over it. I’d rather put my energy into simplifying code and commenting it, then running in circles always keeping up with requests.
For instance, a good IDE can recognize code comments, so when you hover over a function, its description is shown. Here’s the one I use: http://www.eclipse.org/
The issue here is that Symbiostock simply needs to be attractive to coders, and have some obvious incentive to get involved.
For instance, if I’m an experienced programmer (or even moderately experienced) and I have no image skills, why would I get involved? Where’s the benefit? Hopefully monetary?
Plrang was the first good example of a plugin builder, but he lost interest for the most part. Not his fault – we should think in all practicality what is turning off him and people like amanda. of course I already know, but we need to solve these issues.
Personal opinion – the only people who stand to benefit as coders must also be experienced in imaging, which is a rare combination.
I suspect that this is a lot more complex than just the code issues, and those are complex enough.
For coding, having some sort of source code control and system for merging changes if necessary would be needed. Is there something free out there we could use? Dropbox might be fine for making files available but without some sort of source code control we’d be in chaos in no time.
If multiple people are making changes, who gets to decide if there’s been enough testing to release the results as a new version? If someone drops off the radar and doesn’t want to fix what they edited (and broke), does that mean Leo or some other person has to step in and try to repair things. Upgrades can be a big deal (depending on the changes) and if they become painful, sites will stop updating.
As far as the non code things, I recall some discussions in MSG about centralizing a number of things – a license or prices or other aspects of sites. I’ve come to see that part of the reason that Symbiostock works is that I don’t have to have my site look, be priced or behave the same way as everyone else. If changes to the system happen, versus code modifications I make myself for just my site, what if half the sites don’t like them?
I think we need ways to share CSS, functions, code modifications and possibly plugins if there are some key features (hover previews and a loupe to see details, as an example that’s close to my heart!). I think the loose configuration of very heterogeneous sites that is Symbiostock might find that is better suited to the wide variability of preferences and site types than a central system with multiple developers and no central person “in control”.
Perfect timing of this thread from my point of view. Some days ago I thought about whether I would dare to start coding (I know html and css a bit, but php is totally new for me).
Why did I think about it?1. It embarrasses me to ask Leo for new features or changes all the time and I would like to relieve him somehow
2. I want or need some featuresSo I started with something what is really crucial for me. I tried to add a dropdown list of countries to the registration process… and after some time of reading, searching within the existing code and trying I actually succeded (I admit I was quite proud 😀 ). But now I do not have any idea how to get this information into the “new registration mail” I receive after a buyer registers on my site. I’m totally lost at the moment. So I thought about sending a mail to Leo and then thought, that this would not mean to relieve Leo but vice versa adding more work to him (answering my mails).
So perhaps we could have a place here in the forum where more experienced coders help beginners like me to make progress in php-coding. My goal right now is to make it work for my site, but if anyone else is interested, I could imaging to develop a plugin (if I find out how to do that 🙂 ), which could be used by those with similar needs of aditional registration information (caused by European tax offices).
all good points ,which is why I wanted to get the discussion going.
I saw some of this when I was using the GALLERY2 software a coupla years ago — a version control system AND administrator(s) are needed. there also needs to be a mechanism to determine what changes can be made
eg, a very minor change, but the new dropdown menus don’t support deeper hierarchies. we need to be able to ensure that new code doesn’t change how existing sites look and work. most changes should be optional additional features
we also need someone to document the existing code so that each programmer doesn’t have to start from scratch to learn the system
Great idea.
Maybe we could use the forum for people to post up their code tweaks and test them on a Beta site that is live so we could see how it works. The best and most robust tweaks get into the next version update.
I’ve seen quite a few good site mods out there already, I guess ask to see if anyone is willing to donate their code for future version updates.
Is there an Open Source Coders forum anywhere that we could appeal to?
@matt wrote:
Is there an Open Source Coders forum anywhere that we could appeal to?
There are LOTS of them. The plugin that is responsible for finding similar images was inspired when I posted a help request in http://www.wordpress.org. Not only was it fully built by someone else, its perfect in terms of code style and functionality. Its a thing of beauty to look at.
WordPress is FULL of photoblogging interests, both theme developers and users. Its just that Symbiostock (like microstock as a whole) is extremely suffocated and we look through horse blinders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinders
Not only that, most experienced theme designers are far more advanced in wordpress “promotion” and getting their creations out there.
http://wordpress.org/support/
http://www.webmasterworld.com/wordpress/
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/
(These forums from a quick search)Now if you go into these forums in a non-invasive way and say “Hi, we have a network of 129 sites (http://symbiostock.info/), 90% professional photographers” *boom* you’ve just revealed an opportunity to developers. If you say “We only have a few overworked developers, one of which is responsible for 90% of the code” they will totally get it. They will also appreciate the networking aspect. And after they make some immediate criticisms and do a little showing off, they will probably be interested in getting involved. This project has plenty of room for heros, and believe me, many of these guys will totally correct my errors, then build in standard features I was totally ignorant too.
Now instead of making all you learn how to reinvent the wheel, there’s already people out there building antigravity cars. You just don’t know where they are 😀 Its pointless to have you guys start at the bottom when there are potentially interested developers with 10 years + experience in coding, and a few in wordpress.
What does ALL of this writing of mine equate too? Ultimately anyone who feels motivated may wish to start recruiting developers from open source hubs — matt has a very good idea. They will probably invent their own opportunities, but you are expressing a need, which is what they will see. Also a network like ours is hard to ignore at this point 😀
@shotupdave wrote:
Wouldn’t a drop box account work for distribution of the source code?
Not really. For open-source development, you need the ability to create a branch off of the code base so that you can add your changes. Once the branch is completed, it could then be tested by others. If people like the changes, the branch could then be merged with the code base as a new version.
@shazamimages wrote:
@cascoly wrote:
…a version control system AND administrator(s) are needed.
+1
+1
@jsfoto wrote:
@shazamimages wrote:
@cascoly wrote:
…a version control system AND administrator(s) are needed.
+1
+1
+1 here too.
Up to now, we have all had confidence in SYS upgrades because we knew Leo was behind them and wouldn’t lead us astray. 🙂
But if Leo is not the guiding force any more, and if assorted “outside” programmers begin jumping in to offer new features/codes for our sites, I for one (and probably lots of others) will not be so quick to take a chance.
Better an aging website you know works than a sparkly improved one you don’t trust.
One example how to get on the right track can be seen at the darktable project ( for non linux people, this is the open source project to have a replacement for lightroom on linux).
This project is from the start and till this moment a very good open source example how development, debugging and roll out can be managed. Looking at their forum can give some ideas http://www.darktable.org/development/I don’t really know what the procedure for open source is but wouldn’t a road map of the code be useful for coders.
Like where the CSS + PHP files are is for the image page, search results etc.
Then coders (tinkerers) can refine small pieces of the code and show them to the community for inclusion in version updates.
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