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I’m already a quarter of the way through the new and improved Symbiostock. And I’m throwing it away!
Regardless of HOW much I try to simplify things, it will always be too difficult for those not familiar with web design. Even if Symbiostock was just a logo – WordPress itself can be a little daunting for a newcomer!
I’m not saying its all bad. Its quite good, for many. Yet its the voice of the smaller majority that often gets heard (a broken pinky makes the whole being miserable!) and I’ve decided to make the most important thread of 2014, Redeveloping Symbiostock for success.
For those of you who didn’t see it, Symbiostock started as a reaction to the Google / Getty deal, where it became evident that as contributors we would have to start finding our own way else get exploited. At least, many felt that way.
While there are a great many things that I am not, one thing I am is a person who loves to build things. As someone who’s done quite a few projects, I can tell you that Symbiostock 2013 never really graduated from prototype phase. Now please, compare this system to other e-commerce solutions – its not bad at all. But still, for a large-scale success, its important take our prototype and finally create something timeless out of it.
This thread is a constructive one. As they say “Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater”. Symbiostock has a lot of ideas operating within it, real gems. Yet other parts of it can be scrapped.
Here is the template we are building on the next time around:
The New EVOLVED SymbiostockTechnical stuff:
Although Symbiostock works great within WordPress, its still too complicated for people in Microstock, in general. Especially the busy guys. WordPress alone gives challenges (despite its popularity) and Symbiostock has its challenges. Symbiostock requires lots of memory, and good ol’ WP already uses quite a bit BEFORE plugins.
I thank Cascoly and AJT as they are patient on me. Yet as a lone developer (besides them) my limit was discovered about 4 months ago. Symbiostock has to be developed with a mind for the large-scale development community, let alone Microstockers.
I believe Symbiostock must have a few key features, in priority:
1. A database API ( Application programming interface ) which defines Symbiostock.
2. A network system – different than present, running on database API.
3. General product and image upload/processing.
4. Utilize a cloud system 1st, allow independent (bluehost situations) 2nd.The database itself would be SQLite, instead of Mysql, allowing a vastly simplified database as well. All symbiostock sites easily fit within SQLite size. Such a system would be much, much more simple and easy to deploy.
This means that deploying a Symbiostock site would be as easy as, literally, a few clicks (given its a cloud), or if you host-your-own you could deploy it yoruself, with all the responsibility that brings. In theory, each Symbio-site node would communicate and operate as if it did not care whether its in a cloud environment or an independent server. Yet those on the cloud would update instantly. So the only noticeable difference between cloud residents or independents is maintenance and dues.
Second, important, is that self-hosted server environments would be free, but cloud environments would be a matter of monthly use and sales.
And if thats not freaky enough, its possible you could even host Symbiostock’s API on a cloud, but interface it on your own server. Thats whats cool about an API.
Symbiostock would thus be an API, literally, a system of communication which it uses for itself, other sites, or even agents/promoters (like PE), as its already evolved to become.
Also, minding the future, I was thinking of making Symbiostock a python-run system, instead of PHP. This makes things cleaner, future-proof, and vastly more powerful especially considering the feature demands. Python is used by Google, Nasa, the sciences in general, and Imaging definitely falls in this category of requiring a specialized language.
Systems like AJT’s and Cascoly’s could easily keep running as is, and many of their demands could finally be filled. API 😀
And the coolest thing is this: Because its an API, a simple wordpress plugin could interface with it if that is still your comfort zone. Otherwise, Django might end up being it’s native visual interface.
The end result: A more popular, supported, interesting, and FUN Symbiostock system / community.
Anyway, thats my pitch. Please make your voices herd. I want to end up with something that lasts quite a while and is a replacement for Microstock as a whole.
Leo, you invented the wheel in 2013 and now, in 2014, you want to re-invent it? Why? – I can see that wordpress/php/mysql have their disadvantages. But what I can’t see is why you seem to think that any other foundation won’t have their own disadvantages.
Excuse my ignorance but what exactly are AJT’s and Cascoly’s demands that can’t be filled by adding on to the current Symbiostock theme?
I for my part would be a quite happy camper if in 2014 (only) the remaining (major) bugs get addressed and solved. So, please, try to convince me that re-inventing Symbiostock is a good idea.
I’ve tried several times to give a good answer to you in the last 15 minutes. There’s no way to do it without making a post larger than my opening one!
Let me ask you – why do you think its so hard for people to profit in Microstock? Even the exceptionally skilled people?
Symbiostock, to succeed, must leave the little vacuum it was formed in. To do that is a multi-part solution.
I’m quiet on this subject, but did you ever realize how evil and exploitive microstock culture is? Don’t you ever feel like your on the low-end of a gang culture? As its even shown in respect? I feel like that all the time, especially in MSG. Its not Leaf’s fault – its just what this industry breeds. I’m one of the most independent there is in my own portfolio, and even I find this business very bitter.
This is not just about code – this is about breaking free of hypnosis! Sometimes, the only way to break free of your roots, if you were born in bad circumstances, is to reinvent yourself and move to a different area and become a new person. I believe Symbiostock must do that. Specializing in general downloads, for instance, is a huge step out of the Microstock vacuum (a vacuum that really sucks).
I’m not entirely convinced that it needs to break out on it’s own either. With the work that you’ve done creating Symbiostock you could have probably made it a stand alone CMS, independent of WordPress at all. If people find installing Symbiostock all that daunting … Then they probably can’t host their own website no matter what the platform is.
For 2014, I think we should focus on usability and availability from a customers perspective. That’s what most of us are missing right now. I’d rather spend 2014 getting us noticed.
As for Python and SQLlite. I know none at all. I do know some php, css & html though and am always happy to help. Thank you for all that you’ve done Leo.
I’m not going to repeat myself from the last two re-invention threads, but didn’t want to just ignore this one.
I think that there’s a lot wrong with a lot of things in microstock, but energy can be easily dissipated if you (a) define the problem too broadly or (b) keep moving the goalposts.
It may not be as much fun to fix the bugs, finish the missing features, polish the “fit and finish” of what’s there, etc., but I think that’s the approach to take.
I don’t think we’ll magically acquire buyers if we have a shinier, slicker infrastructure, and IMO that’s the big challenge ahead to keep the project moving forward
@joannsnover wrote:
It may not be as much fun to fix the bugs, finish the missing features, polish the “fit and finish” of what’s there, etc., but I think that’s the approach to take.
Amen to that, Jo Ann.
Leo, I have been doing exactly as you suggested a while back. Enjoying the stability. It’s pure bliss not having to make constant technical changes. I’m happy with my SYS site right now and don’t want to face a complete overhaul, with all its inevitable bugs, revisions, etc.
These last couple of months, I’ve been able to focus on uploading and improving things I got wrong in the early stages (like a lousy header and watermark, both now wonderfully improved thanks to design help from “Shelma”). My site looks and functions better now than I ever dreamed it could.
Like Jo Ann and Imago Borealis, I’d like to see bug fixes and more refinements (like the wonderful new zoom preview you concocted). Like DP, I’d like to see improvements to the customer’s experience.
Like everybody else in this network, I’m grateful for what you’ve given us. However, I don’t hear a loud clamor to junk what we’ve spent the better part of a year building and set off like intrepid explorers into yet another brave new world.
It sounds like people would like to enjoy what they have for a while 😀
Generally I know what could be done better, but in the interest of stability it might be better to just stick with what we have and endeavor to fix those last things.
At the least, after stability is achieved I might make a Symbiostock branch like the above mentioned thing, a sort of sub-network for those who are less able to keep up with the system we’ve come to know.
Anyway, thanks as always for your honest opinions.
I’ll jump in to agree with the others. I’m happy with the workings of my Symbiostock site right now. I think our number one goal for this year is attracting buyers.
Fixing bugs is also very important. But no matter how Symbiostock is overhauled or how easy it is to use, if nobody sells files everyone will lose interest. I’m not a programmer, so I actually find threads like this a little distressing. “Oh no, I’ll have to overhaul things,” I think? “But I’ve already spent so many hours on my site, and have made one sale.”
First, as many people have suggested, Symbiostock.com has to be redesigned to be the place for everyone, with a search box for buyers and links to instructions for setting up a site and the forums for sellers.
.com is the URL people naturally type in.
instructions for setting up a site also need to be rewritten. I’d love to see that look like the tutorials at vectortuts, for example. And that can only happen if changes to Symbiostock slow down a lot so someone or a few someones can get a grasp on the options available. I’m happy to help with that, but if there are always major overhauls it just can’t happen.
But most of all we have to coordinate an effort to get sites in the network seen. I’m trying with the Facebook page, but I think Symbiostock also needs its own twitter account. And…please don’t shoot the messenger…I think people need to realize they’ll almost certainly have to spend money advertising their site in order to attract buyers. If each of us spends a little, it can snowball. But if nobody spends anything, it will all go nowhere. I know to some folks that sounds like an “agency,” but I think it’s just reality.
Thank you, Leo, for the tremendous amount of work you’ve already done. For the few of you who were already successful with independent sites, symbiosis may work as you send existing buyers to each other. But if the rest of us link to each other without making an effort to be found, nothing much will happen.
I actually think it’s a great idea to set up the new and much easier Symbiostock, cloud based first, then self hosted for more advanced users. That’s probably the way to go if you want of reach more than just a few hundreds of stock contributors.
However, I also think the existing Symbiostock theme should be polished and finished first to give the SYS community stability and piece of mind, and to give you, Leo, freedom and time to work on the new project.
I have to say, I’m all around quite pleased with my Symbiostock site. That is until a new update comes and occasionally breaks things that worked before (like 3.1.1). Why not try to polish the few things addressed here, just like viewtopic.php?f=5&t=998, and finalize the theme to the most stable version? That can’t be so much work, compared to what you have done before.
Then you’re off the hook to build a completely new and simpler version of it.
Does this mean we would have to rebuild our sites and purchase Cloud hosting ?
http://kerioakimaging.com - trying to reopen
http://nail-art-at.kerioak.com - Art and Nail ArtMy first thoughts when reading your post were those of dismay, thinking all the work I’d done so far, and had planned, would need to be scrapped to rebuild my site on a new platform and relearn new tasks.
I’m sure you’ve learned a lot along the way developing this version and a new and improved platform may prove to be much better but those of us who have invested a lot of time, money and effort to get to this point don’t want to be abandoned or forced to convert.
If this version could have some remaining bugs fixed and remain stable while you create your new version it would give us the opportunity to check out the new version and convert if and when we desire.
Would the new version interact and be compatible with the old version in that searches on the new version would pull up the sites on the WP platform too, or would you end up having two separate Symbiostock networks – one on WP and one on your new platform?
@shelma1 wrote:
I think Symbiostock also needs its own twitter account.
That already exists. See here:
I’m new with SYM theme and my site is not even complete, but I would say:
1. IMHO, bugs always will face anywhere. Don’t you see how many bug iStock faces as well other agencies. Which software do you use that doesn’t have a bug to fix? IMHO even changind the whell won’t get a 100% running site.
2. To keep SYM theme as WP theme is a wonderfull solution because it is a “stable” CMS and you have the option to use “endless” plugins that can complete your needs into your SYM theme where it isn’t some thing that Leo or new people in the future involved in the SYM theme development will need to worry about.
3. As other said, I think the 2014 must focus in buyers and keeping theme improvement. How I saw in the poll showing the # of files members on the SYM network got to sell, it for a lot of people doesn’t encourage them to create their own SYM site vs time effort. It is easier to put in the low tier agencies than build its own. Those that have it really enjoy to build and believe that can make difference, but as Shelma1 said, I agree that: “Symbiostock.com has to be redesigned to be the place for everyone, with a search box for buyers and links to instructions for setting up a site and the forums for sellers.. IMHO, the network main search page and a small link on the bottom: Want to be a contributor, pointing to forum, download and so on.
4. Another idea (rough idea) for 2014 would be the network would have a budget to invest in Symbiostock.com advertise monthly. So, members which contributed with the budget within that month, will be the “Featured members” and have their images placed better in the search results at the Symbiostock.com. The budget would be paid to a Leo PayPal account that would manage the advertisement in Google Ads, other months printing ads in design/advertising magazines, and others, and other places. Well something like that.
Well, just a thought. ;0)
first, i’m glad you’ve decided not to push ahead with a completely new sym, with different api, db, etc — I think you were listening to those who wanted a system handed to them, which just isn’t gonna happen — just consider the effort involved in submitting to a new agency — uploads, categories, keywords, etc are what take time, even with the best interface.
those who can’t take the time to learn the minimal amount of web design to run wp & sym are not likely to jump at the new sym either — while we could lose bth the momentum and the actual sites of the current sym — a fair number have never gone beyond v2.6.x (and that’s fine)
i’d suggest taking a breather and then using the existing bug & suggestion thread to decide what is going to be done; high priority would be to document the current system so that we can really make this an open source project where other developers can contribute — one small example is the recent ‘stock image’ tile threrad — if I knew where that happened I could work to fix it, then send the changes to you to incorporate.
I’ve been giving it a lot of thought, minding the suggestions in this thread.
I’ve decided to continue developing this version and refining it continuously — keeping it perfect and up to date. Tuesday – Friday I’d like to pull a lot of all-day-ers to fix all the bugs possible.
When things are set, I’m going to make a simple-symbio which is cloud based. It would be as wordpress.com is to wordpress.org — a simple, limited solution to those who “want something handed to them”. As things work out, it might just fund this part of Symbio which is more a more driven audience, and more independent.
Another thing – regarding the promotion issue people are mentioning — I’ve always felt that adapting this community also to include customers would be the way to go. But that approach will only be successful if its built on a very good set of ideas. If you look at the success stories of things like Google, Facebook, Twitter — you can see that exceptional ideas do not need promotion, as they tend to gather their own popularity.
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